Gas or electric fireplace?

Barrycudda

We have an older model Napoleon gas 'stove' fireplace. It fits into a recessed area in the basement wall, cut into the foundation. It is about 3 feet wide, two feet deep, and goes right up to the ceiling. Lots of room for this little fireplace and the pipe.
I want to chuck this as it never did work to well, I have replaced the ignitor twice, and the vent on the outside keeps getting covered in snow putting out the pilot light.
I was thinking about getting an electric one.
A couple questions.
Should I go with another gas one, or possibly pellet or electric?
I live in western Canada so it does get used a lot-not so much for heating, but for 'warmimg up'.
Also, there will be space above it. Would it be safe to put a TV up there? It would fit nicely and look good, and free up more floor space.
Or, is an electric one a safer bet?
Thanks for your thoughts!

Answer
I have the Pellet stove in my barn office. Really like it. Burns clean and provides
great heat. I use wood in the house. I have 4 fire places in the main house.
Burn Oak only. Keep the house well hydrated. Has never let me down.

No outrageous electric or fuel cost. 100 percent clean burn and efficiency.

I am sure hydrated is not the word I want here, But you get the point.
Must be walking down Alz and Heimer blvd.

I'm trying to find the fireplace/heater that looks like a flat panel tv. Can you help me?

m.reviewer

Answer
Hi. This is actually a very interesting question to ask. I have come across a few websites that are especially useful for you to compare fireplace models.

If you are looking for a fireplace that looks like a flat panel TV, you have asked the right person! Upon doing a little investigative research, I have provided the following websites to get you started:

http://www.luxuryhousingtrends.com/archive/category/heatingcooling/

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001FA1FHG?ie=UTF8&tag=tortfighandde-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B001FA1FHG

The Bionaire BFH5000-UM Electric Fireplace Heater with Remote Control looks like a hot buy this winter season to keep you warm and refreshed as you watch your favorite TV shows from the comfort of your own couch. It is priced at $249.99 and is ready to be shipped by Amazon.

If price is not a huge deal, check out the following line-up on
http://www.djsonline.com/dimplexflatscreenwallmountelectricfireplace.htm
Models start at $599.99.

If you look at http://www.ibuynapoleonfireplaces.com/product/NEP0173?meta=FRG&utm_source=GBASE&utm_medium=CPC&utm_content=&utm_campaign=
the Napoleon Fireplaces EF39HD Wall Mount Electric Fireplace with Heater model features greater heating capacity at 5,000 Btu's (1,500 Watts) and comes with a remote, turning the fireplace on & off and also control for the embergo green bed intensity & heater. It's listed at $719.10.

Just imagine: your own flat panel TV screen look-alike. You can't go wrong with the aesthetics and the functionality to match!

I hope you have a fulfilling holiday season. Remember: stay warm.

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Any one out there ever buy an electric fireplace?

Atsa me At

for your home? Not an insert. Which did you buy? I would like to get one that has a large open face so I can see more of the flame..a no headache one...seems everything you buy anymore, if you don't know the correct questions to ask the sellers, they don't go out of their way to warn you of potential problems/hazards, well of course not they want to sell their items...thank you.

Answer
I wouldnt buy an electric if your looking for heat. They are stictly for looks. Sales guys will tell you "OH and it does 3000 or 5000 BTU" If you have a $30 space heater from Target that sits under your kitchen table, then you know how much heat that is. That will heat your bathroom after some time and thats it. All they put in them is a cheap little space heater. If your looking for something large to view Lennox makes the best one on the market but they charge for it. You will spend $2-3000 just for the fireplace and with 220v it will do 10,000BTU with 110v it just does 5000btu. But at that price I would just go for gas or wood, because you still have to purchase a full surround mantel. It def. looks the best out of all though because it doesnt use just standard lights. Other wise all the other brand are just cheap little boxes with lights in them with a 20 dollar space heater. Heat Surge claims to be Amish, but when purchased look on the back and you will see MADE IN CHINA, it's all chip board, Amish don't use chip board, so if the sticker is missing thats proof rite there.
I just recommend pick the one you think look the best, just don't plan on purchasing it for heat. And I would not leave the heater on for long times. Leaving just the fireplace on is just a 60W. bulb but with the heater at the same time you have about 1500w an hour

Do gel fireplaces produce heat?

wiccangal

I was thinking about getting an electric fireplace. However, I live in a mobile home and I am not sure about the wiring because it is pretty old. I like the idea of a gel fireplace too, but does it produce heat? Is it safe, does it cause fumes and does it run at all on electricity?

Answer
There are literal 100's of eclectic fireplaces that are on the market today to choose from.

They have them with a nice wooden mantle and some that even look like wood stoves.

They have an electric fan that throws out the heat and fake logs and lights to make them look real.
I bought the wood stove type for my bedroom because I live in a log home so it looks nice.

Mines throws out lots of heat and I am very happy with it.

They are very safe, affordable and look great.
To make mine look more real I added some small real logs to the exciting ones. It turned out looking great.

I would not use anything in your home with old electrical wires. Either have the electrical wires completely replaced or buy one of the new ones I describe.
There are always lots of these for sale in my local newspaper where people are moving and don't need them any more.

Also in just a couple of weeks there will be lots of these new and on sale after the holidays. In January all of these types of things are on sale to make way for spring items.

Be safe and good luck.

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Which fireplace is nicer?

Lilly

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B002SW50NK/ref=dp_image_text_0?ie=UTF8&n=1055398&s=home-garden
or
http://www.electricfireplacesource.com/electric-fireplaces/free-standing-electric-fireplaces/tamora23inchwhiteelectricfireplace.cfm

thanks!
no they are different

Answer
I say the second one, because the first one was too 'chunky' and 'blocky' yet the second one was sleek. Also because the edges on the first one was very sharp, which could lead to injuries in the future. The second one wasn't very sharp.

How can I can I get an Internet company to refund my money?

snydley124

Ok 4 months ago I ordered something from an Internet company called Fireplace Gateway for $349.00. This item was on backorder. I waited 2 months and cancelled my order since the order had not come in. Make a long story short after 10 requests to cancel and a confirmation from them that they will send my a check for my refund, still nothing. Please help. What is my next step.
I tried the number and it an answering service you have to leave a message. The refund through the credit did not work because it was past 60 days(due to the backorder)
I have emailed them over and over and they are now ignoring me.

Answer
EDIT

MMM I found you are not alone
http://www.amazon.com/Arrowflame-23-Electric-Firebox-Insert/dp/B001BL2NRU

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Fireplace_Gateway

I think you should put a complain in the BBB, and in the Attonery General office
http://myfloridalegal.com/contact.nsf/contact?Open&Section=Attorney_General

EDIT

I think that company is just a phone and PC in some basement and they selling overpriced "made in China" stuff.

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Is it cheaper to use electric fireplace or pay for gas heating?

crystal

My husband, myself and our two children went to go look at a 3 bedroom apartment in Shippensburg,PA, the heating is gas heat and the current tenant said that it has cost them about $100 a month but then they said the place isn't hard to heat. We were wondering if this sounds about right for a Gas Heating monthly bill for PA or in general? Right now in our current apartment we are using 2 electric fireplaces and a space heater to heat our pretty good sized apartment and our electric bill has been ranging about $200 to $600 max during the winter time... Do you think it would be cheaper to pay the gas heating or just keep using the electric fireplaces?

Answer
Gas, the DOE says at http://www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls that the average US net cost per BTU for electricity is about 3 times the cost of gas.

Gas, 82% (Low) efficiency, $1.10 per therm, $13.47 net per 100,000 BTU
Electricity, 98% efficiency $0.122 per kw/h, $36.49 per net 100,000 BTU

If you save and reopen the above file you can adjust the local unit cost for energy and compare your net difference.

A couple questions about a wood stove and a fireplace?

dt

Can you put a wood stove in a fireplace? Does it have to be a certain type and size of stove? Will the walls of the fireplace hinder it from exerting heat since hte fireplace walls surround it?

I heard there are different types of stove like oil ones and such which is the best type? Can you buy a really large stove? How much are stoves?

Do wood stoves come with fans or can you just put one next to it?

Do fireplaces have fans or can you just put on next to it?
Is there something you can have built into your fireplace so that all the warm air in your house will not exit out of the chimney?

Answer
I have a fireplace I've had more than one stove in. As a fireplace, it was a total energy loss - it sucked more cold air into the house than the heat it produced. You're right, you have to close off this big opening to put a wood stove in. First, I had a piece of sheet metal fashioned that fit over the opening at the top of the fireplace. This sheet metal has a lip bent into it all the way around, and screws through the lip hold it into position. There's a hole cut into the middle that the chimney pipe fits snugly through. My first stove sat out in the room, right in front of the fireplace. This made a dramatic improvement in efficiency, but took up a lot of floor space. This was in a house with a concrete slab floor, so I didn't need a hearth. Later, when I could afford it, I had the stove changed for a "fireplace insert", which is a wood stove meant to be installed in the recess of the fireplace. Mine has a built in fan, although I don't use it anymore - it's my operating theory that the heat doesn't really go anywhere except in the masonry around the fireplace, and that radiates back into the house eventually anyway, and this way I don't have to listen to the fan. I also installed a 6" stainless steel liner in my chimney, this draws much better than the masonry chimney and I think it's safer.

I was at the wood stove shop the other day, and say an insert like mine for $2700 (the biggest Quadra-Fire insert made). Installation and chimney might run $1500 or so more.

Wood heat is messy, but it's a very comforting heat. I have electric I could use too, but I'm using wood now as we speak. I think it's cheaper, and I know it feels warmer. It works when the powers out, too.

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Electric fire place safety?

jose J

is electric fire place safe enough to leave unatended? if yes which brand is the safest?

Answer
If the fireplace is for heat 220v It should not be left unattended but if you must then the electric would be safest.
If it is just for show it is basically a light bulb. and should be fine.

220 V electric fireplace INSERTS?

Chasuriya

I'm looking for a place that I can buy an electric fireplace insert. Just the logs and no surrounding frame or mantelpiece. It needs to be 220 V and the logs and flame have to look real. Is there any place where I can order it online or a company that you know of? Thanks.

This is the perfect example of what I am looking for, only it is 120V and I need 220V.

http://www.flametex.net/dimplex/Inserts/dimplex_dfi2309.htm

I only want the log parts, no frame or mantel parts please!!

Answer
I have seen these at Lowes. I hope theres one near you.

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Does electric heaters use more electricity ?

Romeo

I have three questions regarding electric heaters.

1 - Is there a difference between electric heater and radiant heater ?

when i think of electric heater, this is what i mean - >
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00dMoQBajslkGO/Electric-Heater-OC-2000-SF-.jpg |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When i think of radiant heater, this is what i mean - >
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| http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/177994_lg.jpg |
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2 - Are electric/radiant heaters quieter than fan-heaters ?

3 - Does electric/radiant heaters use more electricity than fan-heaters and air-conditioner ?
(if so, how much more do they use ? Would it be much more expensive or a little bit more expensive ?)

Thank you.

Answer
Short answer: nearly all "room size" plug-in electric heaters here in the US consume 1500 watts @ 110 volts. Built-in electric heat (such as baseboard or in-wall) as well as a electric central heat are 220 volt and more economical to operate (typically rated at 5000, 10000 or more watts).


Tedious detail: "radiant" heaters supposedly radiate their heat to warm objects in the room rather than heating the air . . . . . while a "convection" type heats the air in the room. Most convection types are fan forced (central hot-air heating is convection heat . . . . . central hot-water heating is radiant heat).

Radiant heat can be a steadier heat - while convection heat can be spotty (ie you feel warmer when it is running with a fan on/cooler when off) ........... but fan boosted heat can warm a room faster than a radiator.

A plug-in electric space heater can be either pure radiant heat (you're looking at the heating element which usually has a reflector behind it to "radiate" the heat in the right direction) . . . . .or it can be fan-boosted convection type . . . . . and most often a combination.

Old plug-in heaters of the 30s & 40s were usually 100% radiant and used metal heating coils, like a light bulb or stove burner. Many newer ones use quartz tubes instead of metal coils - that appears to be what is shown in both of your photos. Quartz tubes have an advantage of heating-up quickly - - so quickly that they can actually "pulse" on-and-off producing a uniform heat while using less electricity. The downside is that the quartz tubes burn-out and need replacing from time-to-time. The popular "Edenpure" type heaters are really quartz tube heaters enclosed in a cabinet - the quartz tubes in the Edenpure cycle on-and-off, but radiate their heat to a copper plate which releases it in a uniform flow.

If you have access to Consumer Reports or their Annual Buying Guide: CR periodically tests space heaters. They generally don't think that the "Edenpure" or "Amish Fireplace" style heaters are worth the expense. They eliminated some makes & models from consideration for safety reasons. We bought the "low profile" unit made by Honeywell that they've recommended for a couple years: it uses an electric strip heating element and can be used with-or-without the enclosed fan - the idea is to use the fan to quickly heat a cold room, then use without fan for a quiet, uniform heat. We're very satisfied.


You mentioned an air-conditioner - - - - a "heat pump" is just a reversible air-conditioner. Very convenient source of heat - if you are in a temperate climate, but not very efficient in a cold climate where winter temps stay below about 45 degrees F . . . . in fact, most heat-pump installations have electric resistance heat as a back-up.

What is better and more economical than a wood burning fireplace? gas, electric or pellet?

geewiz

We currently have a wood burning fireplace. We would like to get an insert. Any suggestions as to electric or gas or pellet? What are the pros or cons? Cost? Installer? DIY?

Answer
If you choose pellet, use good quality pellets or you'll pay more in the long run on having the unit cleaned than you saved buying cheap pellets. Quiet and beautiful flames. The big bags of pellets are a con.

If you can do gas, I'd go with that. As long as the unit is outdoors. I knew someone who bought a $2000 gas heater and once it was installed, he realized it stunk the whole house up with a kerosene-like smell. Ugh And it was noisy too.

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I want to buy an electric fireplace at a store not on line where do I go?

TIM

Answer
Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, Sears, WalMart.

Bert

Can the screen on a sears free standing fireplace be replaced?

m_evelyn

We had this installed in our house before we moved in in 1986. Over the years of having a fire in it the screen as become crimped. Before anyone says to replace it with a electric fireplace or gas one I will not. Not fond of gas and don't want to pay my electric company more than I have to. If I could I would go completely off the grid.

Answer
If Sears still sells the part, then you can. Look on searspartsdirect.com You'll need the Sears model number off the fireplace.

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I understand that natural gas is going up 25%, would it be cheaper to heat with electricity or kerosene?

Lynne

Answer
Natural gas is still the cheapest way to heat a home.

(Propane is not the same thing and costs about as much as gasoline.)

The price of wood, either cord or pellets have gone up for most of the nation so that actually costs more than natural gas unless you can get the wood for practically nothing. Even then, if you burn it in an open fireplace with no outside air intake you could actually lose more heat than you gain as it will cause a vacuum in the home pulling in cold outside air through all the cracks. You will feel warm in front of the fireplace but elsewhere in the house it will be colder.

Electricity is a good heating method if you have very cheap electricity, such as from your own solar or wind power system. But as demand goes up, so does the price and those who went "all electric" years ago are wishing they had not.

Kerosene is nothing but a variation of jet engine fuel, home heating oil and diesel. Expect to pay about the same as diesel for it. Good for heating one or two rooms but not the whole house.

The best bang for your buck right now is to take advantage of the power companies deals for insulating your home. Some of they will pay you 50% of the cost if you add 2-3 inches of more insulation to your attic.

need a project for metal shop?

no_regrets

i am taking metal shop next year and i need a goo metal project i could make. i like skateboarding but already made a mini ramp. my teacher suggested i make a new design for skateboard trucks. my idea is to make longer trucks that have a spring on each side of the cup to push the board up instead of the rubber bushing. if you are a skateboarder please comment on this idea. i am not sure if i want to do it though. any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. maybe some furniture would be good.

Answer
Hi:

I've been waiting for question like this? Here's your answer:

Try the following books for ideas :

Sheet Metal Fabrication Basics
by Timothy Remus


101 Metal Projects for the Novice Blacksmith: A how-to Shop Manual for Beginners
by Ken Scharabok

Decorative Wrought Ironwork: Projects for Beginners
by Thomas F. Googerty

Metal Projects, Vol. 1
by John Walker

Metal Projects, Vol. 2
by Bill Fifer

Metal Projects, Vol. 3
by John R. Walker

Metal Spinning Projects
by Smith, Earl E. Smith

Twenty-Four Metalworking Projects
by Percy W. Blandford

Giant Book of Metalworking Projects

Metalwork for Craftsmen: A Step-by-Step Guide with 55 Projects
by Emil F. Kronquist

Twenty-Four Blacksmithing Projects
by Percy W. Blandford

Decorative Wrought Ironwork: Projects for Beginners
by Thomas F. Googerty

The Complete Metalsmith
by Tim McCreight

Complete Metalsmith: An Illustrated Handbook
by Tim McCreight, McCreight

Metalworking: The Best of Projects in Metal 1990-1991, Vol. 2
by Joe D. Rice (Editor)

Projects and Designs in Metalwork
by Ian Punter

Early American Metal Projects
by Joseph William Daniele

The Metal Craft Book
by Deborah Morgenthal, Janice Eaton Kilby, Janice Eaton Kilby

Projects idea from me :


1) A metal pipe/wire bender

2) a Hammer or Judge mallet

3) a Steam engine

4) a metal lathe

5) a wood lathe

6) a One lug engine

7) a trip hammer

8) a vise or Compound Angle Drill Press Vise

9) a mechanical clock

10) a electric generator or motor

11) a forge or kiln

12) a heat treat oven

13 ) a metal wood plane

14 ) a scale model steam tractor or make it full size- really score some points for that

15. a Scale model of a working steam engine train

16) a Sawmill or bandmill

17) a screwdriver or wood chisel set

18) a bit and brace drill with home made drill bits.

19 ) a steam organ

20 ) a center punch

21) A nail punch

22) a tesla engine

23) A drill press made out of pipe fittings

24) A odemeter or mechanical counter

25) A pluse jet

26 ) a super simple CNC Machine

27) A go Cart

28) A torch or parts carrier- all metal contruction expect the wheels

29) Sheet metal Brake

30) A tap & die set

31) A slip roll

32) A 5 or 6 cylinder radial engine ( gas or Steam Powered)

33) A electro-dischage Machine ( EDM)

34) a Windmill

35 ) a small blast furance for melting aluminum,brass,bronze..ect

36) English wheel

37) A Tool box

38) A dust pan

39 ) A watch maker lathe

40) a workbench

41 ) sheet metal hole maker

42) A mailbox or holder

43) a Dust pan

44) a Cup holder

45) a whisle ( the type you blow into)

46) a Chow Chief( type you see in western movies to call the cowboys to breakfast, lunch,dinner) Triangle

47) A grill for cooking food ( like steaks)

48) a Pitcher

49) a cuttery set

50) bracelets, necklaces,ear rings - great for moms and sisters

51) Candlabras, fireplace gates, front gates, candle stick Candle holder

52) Spoon rest, Cooking rack, metal plates, knife,fork & spoon, coffee pot, coffee cup, canteen, Coffee mug rack Plate holder, caddy

53) Gun holder, fishing holder, tree stand,gun rack, fishing takle box

54) Lamp, shelf for knicknacks

55) pop can crusher

56) truck ramp

57) a Trailer

58) a tree climber spikes or tent pegs

59) a pair of truck or car stand from a twos of piece of pipes and a two inch diameter pins and Angle iron

60) a metal ladder

61) a Metal locker or broom closet

62 A wielding bench




Ash Tray, Hexagonal Ash Tray, Hammered Ash Tray, Card-Table, Match-Box Holder, Label Holder and Luggage Tag, Cookie Cutter, Sugar or Flour Scoop, Cup or Measure, Oil Measure, Recipe Box, Picture Frame, Desk or Dresser Trays, Candy or Nut Dish, Colonial Candlestick with Reflector, Colonial Sconce, Candy Dish, Candelabra, Console Candleholder, Calling-Card Tray, Dinner Bell, Napkin Ring, Bud Vase, Letter Rack, Bill File, Pie-Crust Nut Dish, Titbit Dish, Twin Titbit Tray, Triple Titbit Dish, Trophy Cup, Fruit Dish, Three-Footed Bonbon Dish, Filigree Bonbon Dish, Low-Footed Bonbon Dish, Bonbon Dish, Treat Dish, Footed Fruit Dish, Table Lamp, Painted Flowerpot holder, metal Flowerpot , Shelf, Bird Bath, Lighthouse, a combination safe a big rotary mower adjustable drafting table a gazebo, ice fishing stove, bleachers,ski-wheeler, combination safe, ice fishing stove, a Ice hole maker, brick making forms, Indexing plates,Lock and key, electric wielder (only for the very exprience metalworker and electrical knowlege needed for this project SO BE VERY CAFEFUL WHEN DOING THIS ONE), Spotwielder unit, calipers, Compass, ruler, protractor, drafting template, test jig for measuring tapers, a Morse taper test plug,Car engine hoist,a gun or pistol, trailer ,bending fork,COLD CHISEL,drill point gauge,glue scraper,Marking gauge, offset screwdriver, soldering iron ( blacksmith type), hydraulically operated bearing press, heavy duty auto ramps, do it yourself anvil,plate dog, hydraulically operated wood splitter,abrasive cut off saw ,a barbecue grill. spare tire carrier, A jobbox, woodworking dovetail pattern gauges, a window box, weather vane,annemeter, windmill, plum bobs,croll saw, a electric metal filer, a metal shaper, a woodworking shaper, a paint stirer, a snow sled, paint spray gun, a metal paint booth. a sand blaster gun and metal booth, Drill hole guide, a parts oil cleaning tank, a panograph. Metal drafting triangles 45 degrees and 30-60 degrees, a set of metal french drafting curves.candlebox with small drawer for matches that hold candles.

I hope this helps.

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how do electric fireplaces work?

beach answ

would like to put an electric fireplace in my house, but don't know anything about them.

how do they work? does it just plug in? does it give off heat? use wood? expensive to operate? expensive to purchase? easily installed?

Answer
Electric fireplaces are really just decorative. a 110 unit will produce about 4,500 BTU worth of heat, a 220 will produce about 9,500. Not very much either way. They are VERY easily installed, plug it in and you're done, and fairly inexpensive to buy $300-$1500. A lot of the cost depends on the mantel you choose. They basically just use lights and mirrors to give the "flame" effect, but they're pretty cute.

how effecient per the price, are electric fireplaces? and how well do they heat?

Randall M

Answer
VERY EFFICIENT AND HEATS GREAT!!!

My friend has one and it looks sooo real! It also heats up her living room in no time.

The flame of an electric fireplace uses slightly under 300 Watts of power. With an average electricity rate, the unit operates for a remarkable 2 cents an hour providing all the warmth, ambiance and romance of a fireplace. When you choose to activate the heat feature, the total cost to operate the flame and heater is approximately 7 cents an hour.

The cost of operating may vary slightly among different models. However, since the operation cost of a gas fireplace runs around 17 cents an hour, an electric fireplace proves to be extremely cost-effective and a great value for your money.

These fireplaces are energy efficient because the heat is not going out the chimney of your home. And they can give you instant heat. Depending on the size of your home you may want to first check out these fireplaces and read how many square feet they will heat in your home. Each home will be different depending on the size of the home and how large of a area you are wanting to heat.

Electric fireplaces are getting to be more and more popular these days. You can put them anywhere in your house and they are very easy to install in your home. Electric Fireplaces are a great way to add a warm feeling to your room. They warm up your room nicely and have the look of a real wood fireplace.

They can be put a in any room of your house because they don't need a chimney for them to work. All you need is a close electrical outlet in the room where you are going to place your fireplace. They are very convenient and can be installed in a matter of minutes. People love these types of fireplaces because there is nothing for them to clean up because there is no wood involved. If you are going to decorate or remodel your home this would be a great touch in any room of your house. They are great looking and serve a good purpose in your home.

A electric fireplace is operated just like a electric heater. Except along with the heat that it can put out it also has a illuminated look to it that can make it look like it has real embers and flames burning just like a wood fireplace would look. And some of these fireplaces come with fan forced heat and a thermostat. They come in different looking cabinets and different colors to choose from. And if you want you can buy a electric fireplace insert to use in the existing fireplace in your home. So you have different options when buying a electric fireplace. Some of these fireplaces will also allow you to just turn the flames on without turning the heat on if you prefer. This is a very nice feature. If you just want to sit back and watch your fireplace without having the heat.

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